From S.D.Thompson at tees.ac.uk  Wed Mar  2 23:42:47 2011
From: S.D.Thompson at tees.ac.uk (Thompson, Steve)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 22:42:47 +0000
Subject: [VBbuilders] Animex Fringe 2011
In-Reply-To: <fc.009725010bde1ad73b9aca0040772a58.bde1b43@reflex.at>
Message-ID: <C9947867.5145%s.d.thompson@tees.ac.uk>

hello all

Markus is with me in the UK

If you can't make it to the event in Saltburn tomorrow (Thurs 3rd March) you should still be able to enjoy it online. I say "should" because this is experimental. At http://tvcm.co.uk/animex2011 there is a tweetstream with the hashtag #tvcmanim11 - a chat stream, a live stream and a "blogcast" releasing each film at the same time as the audience sees it.

Cheers

Steve T

--

Steve Thompson
Community Media Manager
Institute of Digital Innovation
Teesside University
M -  07795 826953
E -  s.d.thompson at tees.ac.uk
W - www.steve-thompson.org.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110302/f633cf91/attachment.html>

From ravenwyn at gmail.com  Wed Mar  2 23:46:56 2011
From: ravenwyn at gmail.com (Mark Petz)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 00:46:56 +0200
Subject: [VBbuilders] Animex Fringe 2011
In-Reply-To: <C9947867.5145%s.d.thompson@tees.ac.uk>
References: <fc.009725010bde1ad73b9aca0040772a58.bde1b43@reflex.at>
	<C9947867.5145%s.d.thompson@tees.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikDFrcOWZFAngzoqZzh+-txg7mmn+9vOMwxzBE+@mail.gmail.com>

My coat is here too

http://blogcoat.blogspot.com/

M

On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Thompson, Steve <S.D.Thompson at tees.ac.uk>wrote:

>  hello all
>
> Markus is with me in the UK
>
> If you can?t make it to the event in Saltburn tomorrow (Thurs 3rd March)
> you should still be able to enjoy it online. I say ?should? because this is
> experimental. At *http://tvcm.co.uk/animex2011* there is a tweetstream
> with the hashtag #tvcmanim11 ? a chat stream, a live stream and a ?blogcast?
> releasing each film at the same time as the audience sees it.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve T
>
> --
>
> Steve Thompson
> Community Media Manager
> Institute of Digital Innovation
> Teesside University
> M -  07795 826953
> E -  *s.d.thompson at tees.ac.uk
> *W - www.steve-thompson.org.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110303/9aee5b3f/attachment.html>

From S.D.Thompson at tees.ac.uk  Wed Mar  2 23:49:05 2011
From: S.D.Thompson at tees.ac.uk (Thompson, Steve)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 22:49:05 +0000
Subject: [VBbuilders] Animex Fringe 2011
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikDFrcOWZFAngzoqZzh+-txg7mmn+9vOMwxzBE+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C99479E1.5148%s.d.thompson@tees.ac.uk>

Your coat is not "here"

<pause>

For Finish contemplation

</pause>

It is "elsewhere"

ST


On 02/03/2011 22:46, "Mark Petz" <ravenwyn at gmail.com> wrote:

My coat is here too

http://blogcoat.blogspot.com/

M

On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Thompson, Steve <S.D.Thompson at tees.ac.uk> wrote:
hello all

Markus is with me in the UK

If you can't make it to the event in Saltburn tomorrow (Thurs 3rd March) you should still be able to enjoy it online. I say "should" because this is experimental. At http://tvcm.co.uk/animex2011 there is a tweetstream with the hashtag #tvcmanim11 - a chat stream, a live stream and a "blogcast" releasing each film at the same time as the audience sees it.

Cheers

Steve T
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110302/6ae682cf/attachment.html>

From S.D.Thompson at tees.ac.uk  Sun Mar  6 11:54:56 2011
From: S.D.Thompson at tees.ac.uk (Thompson, Steve)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:54:56 +0000
Subject: [VBbuilders] Animex In Saltburn
Message-ID: <C9991880.535F%s.d.thompson@tees.ac.uk>

Hello,

If you missed the Collaborative Community Animations event in Saltburn on Thursday either because you couldn't make it or you missed the Video stream (or perhaps you just want to relive the event) you can still see all the films in the order they screened and transmitted.

Just follow this link:

http://tvcm.co.uk/animex2011/blogcast/?order=ASC

Cheers,

Steve T

--

Steve Thompson
Community Media Manager
Institute of Digital Innovation
Teesside University
M -  07795 826953
E -  s.d.thompson at tees.ac.uk
W - www.steve-thompson.org.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110306/30631daf/attachment.html>

From S.D.Thompson at tees.ac.uk  Mon Mar  7 08:34:33 2011
From: S.D.Thompson at tees.ac.uk (Thompson, Steve)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 07:34:33 +0000
Subject: [VBbuilders] Animex Fringe 2011
In-Reply-To: <C99479E1.5148%s.d.thompson@tees.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <C99A3B09.53B5%s.d.thompson@tees.ac.uk>

Streaming from last weeks event worked quite well.

Here are my field notes

http://stmedia.tiddlyspot.com/index.html#[[Streaming%20Experiment]]

Steve T


--

Steve Thompson
Community Media Manager
Institute of Digital Innovation
Teesside University
M -  07795 826953
E -  s.d.thompson at tees.ac.uk
W - www.steve-thompson.org.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110307/149aa468/attachment.html>

From ravenwyn at gmail.com  Thu Mar 10 07:36:42 2011
From: ravenwyn at gmail.com (Mark Petz)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 08:36:42 +0200
Subject: [VBbuilders] Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
Message-ID: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/03/google-moves-voice-into-cloud-offs-the-telecomms/

not available outside of usa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Voice#Restrictions

says it is not voip

The Federal Communications
Commission<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commission>(FCC)
has opened an inquiry regarding the rejection of Google Voice for the
iPhone. "The FCC asked why Apple rejected the Google Voice application for
the iPhone and removed related 'third-party applications' from its store."
The FCC has also requested Google to submit a letter describing the
application of Google Voice. "The request is part of a broader-ranging
inquiry by the commission on exclusive deals between cell phone carriers and
handset manufacturers for hot
phones."[51]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Voice#cite_note-fccinquiry-50>
In their response to the FCC, Google stated that the Google Voice
application uses the carrier's voice network to place phone
calls,[52]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Voice#cite_note-51>dispelling
misconceptions that it is a Voice
over Internet Protocol<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_over_Internet_Protocol>application.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110310/ce3d70e8/attachment.html>

From michelsub2004 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 10 07:40:11 2011
From: michelsub2004 at gmail.com (Michel Bauwens)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:40:11 +0700
Subject: [VBbuilders] Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=j0JqW1EANi3QZpsXEScs9uEXR1S17VUK2hdN8@mail.gmail.com>

the wikipedia entry may not be updated ?

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Mark Petz <ravenwyn at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/03/google-moves-voice-into-cloud-offs-the-telecomms/
>
> not available outside of usa
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Voice#Restrictions
>
> says it is not voip
>
> The Federal Communications Commission<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commission>(FCC) has opened an inquiry regarding the rejection of Google Voice for the
> iPhone. "The FCC asked why Apple rejected the Google Voice application for
> the iPhone and removed related 'third-party applications' from its store."
> The FCC has also requested Google to submit a letter describing the
> application of Google Voice. "The request is part of a broader-ranging
> inquiry by the commission on exclusive deals between cell phone carriers and
> handset manufacturers for hot phones."[51]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Voice#cite_note-fccinquiry-50>
> In their response to the FCC, Google stated that the Google Voice
> application uses the carrier's voice network to place phone calls,[52]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Voice#cite_note-51>dispelling misconceptions that it is a Voice
> over Internet Protocol<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_over_Internet_Protocol>application.
>



-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110310/8cfd712c/attachment.html>

From ravenwyn at gmail.com  Thu Mar 10 12:27:26 2011
From: ravenwyn at gmail.com (Mark Petz)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:27:26 +0200
Subject: [VBbuilders] Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinHzSQu_U4z1GSfAKzXF1x21LTNPD_ny-D68DWj@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=j0JqW1EANi3QZpsXEScs9uEXR1S17VUK2hdN8@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinHzSQu_U4z1GSfAKzXF1x21LTNPD_ny-D68DWj@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikWsehZtwyuL60iDS=K6RCAfJxhoz99TNPOzwfu@mail.gmail.com>

Yep I understand that - that is why only North America has google voice -
but in this case is it a probe? Or can anyone use this as VOIP? Or is it
more vaporware?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

Don't forget there is a handset war going on now - and people might be being
misled to start using Google Voice on false premises.

m

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Robert Steele <
robert.david.steele.vivas at gmail.com> wrote:

> Google has a history of doing small "probes" well in advance of full
> release, that no one notices.
>
> See The google trilogy by Steve Arnold.
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 1:40 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> the wikipedia entry may not be updated ?
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Mark Petz <ravenwyn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/03/google-moves-voice-into-cloud-offs-the-telecomms/
>>>
>>> not available outside of usa
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Voice#Restrictions
>>>
>>> says it is not voip
>>>
>>> The Federal Communications Commission<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commission>(FCC) has opened an inquiry regarding the rejection of Google Voice for the
>>> iPhone. "The FCC asked why Apple rejected the Google Voice application for
>>> the iPhone and removed related 'third-party applications' from its store."
>>> The FCC has also requested Google to submit a letter describing the
>>> application of Google Voice. "The request is part of a broader-ranging
>>> inquiry by the commission on exclusive deals between cell phone carriers and
>>> handset manufacturers for hot phones."[51]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Voice#cite_note-fccinquiry-50>
>>> In their response to the FCC, Google stated that the Google Voice
>>> application uses the carrier's voice network to place phone calls,[52]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Voice#cite_note-51>dispelling misconceptions that it is a Voice
>>> over Internet Protocol<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_over_Internet_Protocol>application.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110310/ab536ee1/attachment.html>

From michelsub2004 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 10 13:32:02 2011
From: michelsub2004 at gmail.com (Michel Bauwens)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 19:32:02 +0700
Subject: [VBbuilders] Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=K0yKKfmsOWmdDJ+kj0Q0ckOY-OOCP07_fK1Z_@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=j0JqW1EANi3QZpsXEScs9uEXR1S17VUK2hdN8@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinHzSQu_U4z1GSfAKzXF1x21LTNPD_ny-D68DWj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikWsehZtwyuL60iDS=K6RCAfJxhoz99TNPOzwfu@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=K0yKKfmsOWmdDJ+kj0Q0ckOY-OOCP07_fK1Z_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinidHC6F9bKiP+s=gku3fQcA-dedNAKgf6JjOvY@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Robert, I understand the 'predatory' charge, since Google is a profit
maximising company legally obliged to favour its shareholders,

but in what is a global company not scalable to global?? there is hardly any
company I know of that is more global than Google?

Google is very present in Asia as well, including physically, through
hackaton's etc ..

Michel

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Robert Steele <
robert.david.steele.vivas at gmail.com> wrote:

> Google is predatory, plain and simple.  Eric Schmidt left in place a winner
> take all model that does probes, and then wipes out opponents.  It is not
> scalable to global, and I believe he left because Google stock should be
> about ready to crash in a year or two when the fantasy falls apart.
>
> The Google Trilogy<http://www.infonortics.com/publications/google/google-trilogy.html>(latest is Google:
> The Digital Gutenberg<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2009/08/2009-arnold-google-the-digital-gutenberg/>)
> by Steve Arnold is a truly illuminating review of patents, precedents, and
> predatory tendencia of Google.  Like the US Government, Google is full of
> good people trapped in a bad system.
>
> What's important here is that we now are focused on the art of the
> possible.  See also what the Dutch have done<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/03/reference-building-national-knowledge-infrastructure-how-dutch-pragmatism-nurtures-a-21st-century-economy-the-cook-report-on-internet-protocol/>,
> making multi-layer transport a reality, and making the biggest layers public
> highways, what Roger Karraker called "highways of the mind<http://www.phibetaiota.net/1993/12/1993-karraker-highways-of-the-mind/>"
> decades ago.
>
> Crowd-sourcing has come of age, I think, with its $60K in six days for
> Freedom Box.  Now what is missing is a coherent road map such as I tried to
> structure (table of contents only), that needs lots of inputs and lots of
> editing to get to where it can add confidence to crowd-sourcing of the
> missing pieces and enhancements of the existing pieces.
>
> In passing, have noticed with great surprise (to me) that Wolfram Alpha is
> heavily into light speed calculations and serving as some kind of real time
> router, mentioned in the Dutch publication below.  I do not understand the
> details, but find the connection fascinating.
>
> IMHO.....
>
> Above links:
>
> 2009 Arnold Google: The Digital Gutenberg<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2009/08/2009-arnold-google-the-digital-gutenberg/>
>
> Stephen E. Arnold The Google Trilogy<http://www.infonortics.com/publications/google/google-trilogy.html>
>
> Reference: Building National Knowledge Infrastructure?How Dutch Pragmatism
> Nurtures a 21st Century Economy (The Cook Report on Internet Protocol<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/03/reference-building-national-knowledge-infrastructure-how-dutch-pragmatism-nurtures-a-21st-century-economy-the-cook-report-on-internet-protocol/>
>
> 1993 Karraker (US) Highways of the Mind<http://www.phibetaiota.net/1993/12/1993-karraker-highways-of-the-mind/>
>
>
>


-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110310/169e2893/attachment.html>

From michelsub2004 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 10 13:57:06 2011
From: michelsub2004 at gmail.com (Michel Bauwens)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 19:57:06 +0700
Subject: [VBbuilders] Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=zvuQC--=4eue+Lnxe97V_XtqiJftG4+7XfFPJ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=j0JqW1EANi3QZpsXEScs9uEXR1S17VUK2hdN8@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinHzSQu_U4z1GSfAKzXF1x21LTNPD_ny-D68DWj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikWsehZtwyuL60iDS=K6RCAfJxhoz99TNPOzwfu@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=K0yKKfmsOWmdDJ+kj0Q0ckOY-OOCP07_fK1Z_@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinidHC6F9bKiP+s=gku3fQcA-dedNAKgf6JjOvY@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=zvuQC--=4eue+Lnxe97V_XtqiJftG4+7XfFPJ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=j16yA_hYdJd+h_SSc=Sf-cjjhOpCQ9=OOwfgP@mail.gmail.com>

hi robert,

google regulates access to its digitized collection, but the book remain in
the public domain, and can be digitized by others; i'm not saying the google
settlement is a good one, but I don't see it diminishing the public domain
..

I also have seen no evidence, beside the issue of prioritizing their own
links, that the search engine favours paid results, though of course, they
have all kinds of engineers tweaking their results; but losing the integrity
of search would destroy the confidence of the users, and hence their
advertising revenue, which is not in their interests; I have yet to see a
single proof of this, even though hundreds of people are intensely watching
for this to occur

in general, as every company, google tries to balance open and closed
elements in its own interests, and we have to be weary and cautious about
that; however in terms of enemies of open infrastructures, I think a lot of
companies are much worse than Google, think about MS, Apple ..

private companies never give anything for free, unless they have a material
interest somewhere along the line, so the right question is always, what is
this 'free' costing us ..

Michel

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Robert Steele <
robert.david.steele.vivas at gmail.com> wrote:

> There is profit (and I confess to being impressed by your balanced comment)
> and there is deception.  Google claims that it owns all "dead souls" books
> that it has digitized and for which there is no claimant...that normally
> goes into public domain.  google was kicked out of Boston by the libraries
> when it tried to assert a claim to ownership of anything it digitized.
> bottom line is that the google mind-set and culture are not favorable to the
> public interest, in my estimation.  they have programmable search engines
> that go beyond advertising to now manipulate search results so you only see
> what someone has paid for you to see.  I know you have The Google Trilogy
> mentioned on P2P, I received courtesy copies since Steve Arnold the author
> has been my virtual CTO for over a decade, Google is the opposite of the
> autonomous internet.
>
> As for scalability, energy and third party are the blockages.  The data
> centers are --  I speculate not being a technical person, based on bits here
> and there -- coming to an end in terms of energy affordability.  This is why
> I am so interested in Chile as a possible first country to actually offer up
> free unlimited energy as a regional and cloud jump starter.
>
> Google only makes one dollar for every x millions in shareholder fantasy
> cash they spend--I forget the exact amount, but Google has benefitted
> enormously from the enthusiasm of the public for its message, no one seems
> to be troubled as I am that after all these years Google is still not
> connecting dot to dots, dots to people, and people to people--it is a dumb
> service, not a smart sense-making environment.
>
> With warm regards,
> Robert
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Robert, I understand the 'predatory' charge, since Google is a profit
>> maximising company legally obliged to favour its shareholders,
>>
>> but in what is a global company not scalable to global?? there is hardly
>> any company I know of that is more global than Google?
>>
>> Google is very present in Asia as well, including physically, through
>> hackaton's etc ..
>>
>> Michel
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Robert Steele <
>> robert.david.steele.vivas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Google is predatory, plain and simple.  Eric Schmidt left in place a
>>> winner take all model that does probes, and then wipes out opponents.  It is
>>> not scalable to global, and I believe he left because Google stock should be
>>> about ready to crash in a year or two when the fantasy falls apart.
>>>
>>> The Google Trilogy<http://www.infonortics.com/publications/google/google-trilogy.html>(latest is Google:
>>> The Digital Gutenberg<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2009/08/2009-arnold-google-the-digital-gutenberg/>)
>>> by Steve Arnold is a truly illuminating review of patents, precedents, and
>>> predatory tendencia of Google.  Like the US Government, Google is full of
>>> good people trapped in a bad system.
>>>
>>> What's important here is that we now are focused on the art of the
>>> possible.  See also what the Dutch have done<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/03/reference-building-national-knowledge-infrastructure-how-dutch-pragmatism-nurtures-a-21st-century-economy-the-cook-report-on-internet-protocol/>,
>>> making multi-layer transport a reality, and making the biggest layers public
>>> highways, what Roger Karraker called "highways of the mind<http://www.phibetaiota.net/1993/12/1993-karraker-highways-of-the-mind/>"
>>> decades ago.
>>>
>>> Crowd-sourcing has come of age, I think, with its $60K in six days for
>>> Freedom Box.  Now what is missing is a coherent road map such as I tried to
>>> structure (table of contents only), that needs lots of inputs and lots of
>>> editing to get to where it can add confidence to crowd-sourcing of the
>>> missing pieces and enhancements of the existing pieces.
>>>
>>> In passing, have noticed with great surprise (to me) that Wolfram Alpha
>>> is heavily into light speed calculations and serving as some kind of real
>>> time router, mentioned in the Dutch publication below.  I do not understand
>>> the details, but find the connection fascinating.
>>>
>>> IMHO.....
>>>
>>> Above links:
>>>
>>> 2009 Arnold Google: The Digital Gutenberg<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2009/08/2009-arnold-google-the-digital-gutenberg/>
>>>
>>> Stephen E. Arnold The Google Trilogy<http://www.infonortics.com/publications/google/google-trilogy.html>
>>>
>>> Reference: Building National Knowledge Infrastructure?How Dutch
>>> Pragmatism Nurtures a 21st Century Economy (The Cook Report on Internet
>>> Protocol<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/03/reference-building-national-knowledge-infrastructure-how-dutch-pragmatism-nurtures-a-21st-century-economy-the-cook-report-on-internet-protocol/>
>>>
>>> 1993 Karraker (US) Highways of the Mind<http://www.phibetaiota.net/1993/12/1993-karraker-highways-of-the-mind/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110310/e3344359/attachment.html>

From robert.david.steele.vivas at gmail.com  Thu Mar 10 12:44:05 2011
From: robert.david.steele.vivas at gmail.com (Robert Steele)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 06:44:05 -0500
Subject: [VBbuilders] Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikWsehZtwyuL60iDS=K6RCAfJxhoz99TNPOzwfu@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=j0JqW1EANi3QZpsXEScs9uEXR1S17VUK2hdN8@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinHzSQu_U4z1GSfAKzXF1x21LTNPD_ny-D68DWj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikWsehZtwyuL60iDS=K6RCAfJxhoz99TNPOzwfu@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=K0yKKfmsOWmdDJ+kj0Q0ckOY-OOCP07_fK1Z_@mail.gmail.com>

Google is predatory, plain and simple.  Eric Schmidt left in place a winner
take all model that does probes, and then wipes out opponents.  It is not
scalable to global, and I believe he left because Google stock should be
about ready to crash in a year or two when the fantasy falls apart.

The Google Trilogy<http://www.infonortics.com/publications/google/google-trilogy.html>(latest
is Google:
The Digital Gutenberg<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2009/08/2009-arnold-google-the-digital-gutenberg/>)
by Steve Arnold is a truly illuminating review of patents, precedents, and
predatory tendencia of Google.  Like the US Government, Google is full of
good people trapped in a bad system.

What's important here is that we now are focused on the art of the
possible.  See also what the Dutch have
done<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/03/reference-building-national-knowledge-infrastructure-how-dutch-pragmatism-nurtures-a-21st-century-economy-the-cook-report-on-internet-protocol/>,
making multi-layer transport a reality, and making the biggest layers public
highways, what Roger Karraker called "highways of the
mind<http://www.phibetaiota.net/1993/12/1993-karraker-highways-of-the-mind/>"
decades ago.

Crowd-sourcing has come of age, I think, with its $60K in six days for
Freedom Box.  Now what is missing is a coherent road map such as I tried to
structure (table of contents only), that needs lots of inputs and lots of
editing to get to where it can add confidence to crowd-sourcing of the
missing pieces and enhancements of the existing pieces.

In passing, have noticed with great surprise (to me) that Wolfram Alpha is
heavily into light speed calculations and serving as some kind of real time
router, mentioned in the Dutch publication below.  I do not understand the
details, but find the connection fascinating.

IMHO.....

Above links:

2009 Arnold Google: The Digital
Gutenberg<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2009/08/2009-arnold-google-the-digital-gutenberg/>

Stephen E. Arnold The Google
Trilogy<http://www.infonortics.com/publications/google/google-trilogy.html>

Reference: Building National Knowledge Infrastructure?How Dutch Pragmatism
Nurtures a 21st Century Economy (The Cook Report on Internet
Protocol<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/03/reference-building-national-knowledge-infrastructure-how-dutch-pragmatism-nurtures-a-21st-century-economy-the-cook-report-on-internet-protocol/>

1993 Karraker (US) Highways of the
Mind<http://www.phibetaiota.net/1993/12/1993-karraker-highways-of-the-mind/>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110310/8d7d513c/attachment.html>

From robert.david.steele.vivas at gmail.com  Thu Mar 10 13:47:34 2011
From: robert.david.steele.vivas at gmail.com (Robert Steele)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 07:47:34 -0500
Subject: [VBbuilders] Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinidHC6F9bKiP+s=gku3fQcA-dedNAKgf6JjOvY@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=j0JqW1EANi3QZpsXEScs9uEXR1S17VUK2hdN8@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinHzSQu_U4z1GSfAKzXF1x21LTNPD_ny-D68DWj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikWsehZtwyuL60iDS=K6RCAfJxhoz99TNPOzwfu@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=K0yKKfmsOWmdDJ+kj0Q0ckOY-OOCP07_fK1Z_@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinidHC6F9bKiP+s=gku3fQcA-dedNAKgf6JjOvY@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=zvuQC--=4eue+Lnxe97V_XtqiJftG4+7XfFPJ@mail.gmail.com>

There is profit (and I confess to being impressed by your balanced comment)
and there is deception.  Google claims that it owns all "dead souls" books
that it has digitized and for which there is no claimant...that normally
goes into public domain.  google was kicked out of Boston by the libraries
when it tried to assert a claim to ownership of anything it digitized.
bottom line is that the google mind-set and culture are not favorable to the
public interest, in my estimation.  they have programmable search engines
that go beyond advertising to now manipulate search results so you only see
what someone has paid for you to see.  I know you have The Google Trilogy
mentioned on P2P, I received courtesy copies since Steve Arnold the author
has been my virtual CTO for over a decade, Google is the opposite of the
autonomous internet.

As for scalability, energy and third party are the blockages.  The data
centers are --  I speculate not being a technical person, based on bits here
and there -- coming to an end in terms of energy affordability.  This is why
I am so interested in Chile as a possible first country to actually offer up
free unlimited energy as a regional and cloud jump starter.

Google only makes one dollar for every x millions in shareholder fantasy
cash they spend--I forget the exact amount, but Google has benefitted
enormously from the enthusiasm of the public for its message, no one seems
to be troubled as I am that after all these years Google is still not
connecting dot to dots, dots to people, and people to people--it is a dumb
service, not a smart sense-making environment.

With warm regards,
Robert

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Robert, I understand the 'predatory' charge, since Google is a profit
> maximising company legally obliged to favour its shareholders,
>
> but in what is a global company not scalable to global?? there is hardly
> any company I know of that is more global than Google?
>
> Google is very present in Asia as well, including physically, through
> hackaton's etc ..
>
> Michel
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Robert Steele <
> robert.david.steele.vivas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Google is predatory, plain and simple.  Eric Schmidt left in place a
>> winner take all model that does probes, and then wipes out opponents.  It is
>> not scalable to global, and I believe he left because Google stock should be
>> about ready to crash in a year or two when the fantasy falls apart.
>>
>> The Google Trilogy<http://www.infonortics.com/publications/google/google-trilogy.html>(latest is Google:
>> The Digital Gutenberg<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2009/08/2009-arnold-google-the-digital-gutenberg/>)
>> by Steve Arnold is a truly illuminating review of patents, precedents, and
>> predatory tendencia of Google.  Like the US Government, Google is full of
>> good people trapped in a bad system.
>>
>> What's important here is that we now are focused on the art of the
>> possible.  See also what the Dutch have done<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/03/reference-building-national-knowledge-infrastructure-how-dutch-pragmatism-nurtures-a-21st-century-economy-the-cook-report-on-internet-protocol/>,
>> making multi-layer transport a reality, and making the biggest layers public
>> highways, what Roger Karraker called "highways of the mind<http://www.phibetaiota.net/1993/12/1993-karraker-highways-of-the-mind/>"
>> decades ago.
>>
>> Crowd-sourcing has come of age, I think, with its $60K in six days for
>> Freedom Box.  Now what is missing is a coherent road map such as I tried to
>> structure (table of contents only), that needs lots of inputs and lots of
>> editing to get to where it can add confidence to crowd-sourcing of the
>> missing pieces and enhancements of the existing pieces.
>>
>> In passing, have noticed with great surprise (to me) that Wolfram Alpha is
>> heavily into light speed calculations and serving as some kind of real time
>> router, mentioned in the Dutch publication below.  I do not understand the
>> details, but find the connection fascinating.
>>
>> IMHO.....
>>
>> Above links:
>>
>> 2009 Arnold Google: The Digital Gutenberg<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2009/08/2009-arnold-google-the-digital-gutenberg/>
>>
>> Stephen E. Arnold The Google Trilogy<http://www.infonortics.com/publications/google/google-trilogy.html>
>>
>> Reference: Building National Knowledge Infrastructure?How Dutch Pragmatism
>> Nurtures a 21st Century Economy (The Cook Report on Internet Protocol<http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/03/reference-building-national-knowledge-infrastructure-how-dutch-pragmatism-nurtures-a-21st-century-economy-the-cook-report-on-internet-protocol/>
>>
>> 1993 Karraker (US) Highways of the Mind<http://www.phibetaiota.net/1993/12/1993-karraker-highways-of-the-mind/>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>
> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110310/27bc05b4/attachment.html>

From michelsub2004 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 04:06:14 2011
From: michelsub2004 at gmail.com (Michel Bauwens)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:06:14 +0700
Subject: [VBbuilders] Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimd9C1=KEVS7pzfG1S+JKEGj4g_LnZ9RsGZ2srN@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=j0JqW1EANi3QZpsXEScs9uEXR1S17VUK2hdN8@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinHzSQu_U4z1GSfAKzXF1x21LTNPD_ny-D68DWj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikWsehZtwyuL60iDS=K6RCAfJxhoz99TNPOzwfu@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=K0yKKfmsOWmdDJ+kj0Q0ckOY-OOCP07_fK1Z_@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinidHC6F9bKiP+s=gku3fQcA-dedNAKgf6JjOvY@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=zvuQC--=4eue+Lnxe97V_XtqiJftG4+7XfFPJ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=j16yA_hYdJd+h_SSc=Sf-cjjhOpCQ9=OOwfgP@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimd9C1=KEVS7pzfG1S+JKEGj4g_LnZ9RsGZ2srN@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinx3tP9wEaJZyFwtxVG1qqFLFGLg7cpqhN6kSXQ@mail.gmail.com>

fair point and why we should support public (or common?) digitizing
projects, not private ones that in some way or other attempt to enclose  ..

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Patrick Anderson <agnucius at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > hi robert,
> >
> > google regulates access to its digitized collection, but the book remain
> in
> > the public domain, and can be digitized by others
>
> Google owns the copyright to the specific instances they have scanned
> into their databases.
>
> That increases the number of copies on earth, and does not diminished
> the public domain (though, if we want to be picky, it could be argued
> that the act of handling the original manuscripts really *does* cause
> damage, and if thousands of corporations were doing the same as
> Google, the cumulative effects could be problematic...).
>
> The concern I have is that society will come to rely upon those
> corporate copies, even just as thinking "We don't need to make another
> copy for 'backup', since we know somebody else is already storing this
> data.", and then, when the library burns to the ground, that
> information will be inaccessible unless we pay price above cost.
>



-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110311/9839818b/attachment.html>

From michelsub2004 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 04:07:27 2011
From: michelsub2004 at gmail.com (Michel Bauwens)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:07:27 +0700
Subject: [VBbuilders] Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
In-Reply-To: <731520214-1299809220-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1711589311-@bda2244.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=j0JqW1EANi3QZpsXEScs9uEXR1S17VUK2hdN8@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinHzSQu_U4z1GSfAKzXF1x21LTNPD_ny-D68DWj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikWsehZtwyuL60iDS=K6RCAfJxhoz99TNPOzwfu@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=K0yKKfmsOWmdDJ+kj0Q0ckOY-OOCP07_fK1Z_@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinidHC6F9bKiP+s=gku3fQcA-dedNAKgf6JjOvY@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinwJOgi4spmFKcCLq002EsdV8MNaWu29YuKZGjh@mail.gmail.com>
	<731520214-1299809220-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1711589311-@bda2244.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=X=Tu6hMsUK5Yqar71e5BZaUxHoTVJPtHVJbfF@mail.gmail.com>

there are different kinds of coops, and Patrick's vision is 'consumers'
only, which in a way makes the producers in the coop 'owned' by the
consumers ... I find this problematic and prefer multiple stakeholder models

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 9:07 AM, <suresh2323 at gmail.com> wrote:

> This, in the purest sense, is what a co-op aims to be, is it not?
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone powered by Mobilicity
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Anderson <agnucius at gmail.com>
> Sender: building-a-distributed-decentralized-internet at googlegroups.com
> Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 18:56:41
> To: <building-a-distributed-decentralized-internet at googlegroups.com>
> Reply-To: building-a-distributed-decentralized-internet at googlegroups.com
> Cc: Michel Bauwens<michelsub2004 at gmail.com>; Robert Steele<
> robert.david.steele.vivas at gmail.com>; Mark Petz<ravenwyn at gmail.com>; <
> videobridgebuilders at globalvillages.org>
> Subject: Re: Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
>
> Michel Bauwens wrote:
> > profit maximising company legally obliged to favour its shareholders
>
> Hmm...
>
> What if we built a crowd-funded corporation where the only
> shareholders were the very consumers of that product?
>
> Their ROI for taking risk would be to avoid paying profit - since the
> owner of an Apple tree does not *buy* the Apples from himself, but
> owns those Objectives already, as a side-effect of his owning the
> Sources.
>
> There would no longer be "Vendor/Customer" relations to worry about
> since the Vendor and the Customer would be one and the same!
>
> I wonder what disadvantages such an alignment might cause...
>



-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110311/c3795375/attachment.html>

From michelsub2004 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 06:09:57 2011
From: michelsub2004 at gmail.com (Michel Bauwens)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:09:57 +0700
Subject: [VBbuilders] Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinQ-TcjH4jc2bP10MFQJrU-CGtuzw3D9g7gG_co@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=j0JqW1EANi3QZpsXEScs9uEXR1S17VUK2hdN8@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinHzSQu_U4z1GSfAKzXF1x21LTNPD_ny-D68DWj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikWsehZtwyuL60iDS=K6RCAfJxhoz99TNPOzwfu@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=K0yKKfmsOWmdDJ+kj0Q0ckOY-OOCP07_fK1Z_@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinidHC6F9bKiP+s=gku3fQcA-dedNAKgf6JjOvY@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinwJOgi4spmFKcCLq002EsdV8MNaWu29YuKZGjh@mail.gmail.com>
	<731520214-1299809220-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1711589311-@bda2244.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTi=X=Tu6hMsUK5Yqar71e5BZaUxHoTVJPtHVJbfF@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinQ-TcjH4jc2bP10MFQJrU-CGtuzw3D9g7gG_co@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimXhjgHSVzMB-rOpUduEe7EuHEGFg5Sd333eOjV@mail.gmail.com>

I remain unconvinced of a consumers-only ownership modality, again, all
stakeholders should have a stake, all peers, not just consuming peers

there is an interesting proposal, called 'liberal communism', which sees
society as consisting of enterprises that are co-owned by their workers
(49.9%) and their clients (50.1); that would pass my ethical test,

since this is an ethical and principled issue, no functional explanation can
convince me, it's really on the level of human rights or say, the abolition
of slavery,

that does not mean I impunge your motives, or that your proposal is not
functionally sound,

outside of coercion though, even if you are successfull, it will just be one
of the options people can choose, and that it how it should be,

if this type of consumer coop turns out to be successfull, more people would
choose it (of course, this can only happen in a truly free society, so this
is quite hypothetical, and political transformations will be needed before
such type of free experimentation can occur)

Michel

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Patrick Anderson <agnucius at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > there are different kinds of coops, and Patrick's vision is 'consumers'
> > only, which in a way makes the producers in the coop 'owned' by the
> > consumers ... I find this problematic and prefer multiple stakeholder
> models
>
> There is no reason to worry about the workers - for that is who I am
> protecting, but am protecting their ability to consume instead of
> trying to prop-up wages and avoid automation.
>
> Wishing the machines would just stop (as John Henry) will become less
> and less of an option as the robots are coming to take the work away -
> and we can be *happy* about that if we are working on the right side
> of the equation!
>
> Furthermore, even without robots, wages and profit will approach zero
> as the Means of Production become cheaper, since there will be no way
> to stop willing workers from accessing those tools and thereby
> providing the solutions consumers seek.
>



-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110311/c2192da2/attachment.html>

From ravenwyn at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 16:44:07 2011
From: ravenwyn at gmail.com (Mark Petz)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:44:07 +0200
Subject: [VBbuilders] Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi==n8ouUMNy-NXzLL-+WExLioaGsg9NXXhMv2M2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=j0JqW1EANi3QZpsXEScs9uEXR1S17VUK2hdN8@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinHzSQu_U4z1GSfAKzXF1x21LTNPD_ny-D68DWj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikWsehZtwyuL60iDS=K6RCAfJxhoz99TNPOzwfu@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=K0yKKfmsOWmdDJ+kj0Q0ckOY-OOCP07_fK1Z_@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinidHC6F9bKiP+s=gku3fQcA-dedNAKgf6JjOvY@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinwJOgi4spmFKcCLq002EsdV8MNaWu29YuKZGjh@mail.gmail.com>
	<731520214-1299809220-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1711589311-@bda2244.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTi=X=Tu6hMsUK5Yqar71e5BZaUxHoTVJPtHVJbfF@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinQ-TcjH4jc2bP10MFQJrU-CGtuzw3D9g7gG_co@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimXhjgHSVzMB-rOpUduEe7EuHEGFg5Sd333eOjV@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinahv2FEzLPVeakTUU7VKhGQQ2Ry2aW28yEa+gH@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi==n8ouUMNy-NXzLL-+WExLioaGsg9NXXhMv2M2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=rXwSA8rhAiyEsv+xiQzj=shWSmRsMhvecj=6n@mail.gmail.com>

" Every Consumer Cooperative I know of is only concerned with buying
products that were made by Capitalists."

You need to look around more coz I know lots of collectives and
co-operatives that are focused on non-capitalists. FOR example in the Art
World. If you have ever been to a craft fair you will quickly see that much
of the produce is not produced in any capitalistic sense, Similar aspects
can be asked of festivals and Women's Institute markets - OF course some of
these do have capitalists involved. But many do not have any odea of making
capital as the aim.

Church f?tes and country fairs are similar in that the aim is often not a
profit motive (in a capitalist sense - more money) but that of community
development so it could be argued social capital - but in my opinion that
term is only capitalists or Marxists trying to make an alternative way fit
into their Weltanschauung much as Abrahamists try and make my paganism fit
their notion of God.

M

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Robert Steele <
robert.david.steele.vivas at gmail.com> wrote:

> What works for me is the concept of cognitive surplus being both enabled by
> worker ownership equity and directed in ways that reflect both the worker
> already have a sufficiency of tangible goods, and a motivation for creating
> wealth for the whole.
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Patrick Anderson <agnucius at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Michel Bauwens wrote:
>> > I remain unconvinced of a consumers-only ownership modality, again, all
>> > stakeholders should have a stake, all peers, not just consuming peers
>>
>> Workers can invest more than they are able to consume, but it won't do
>> them any good when the consumers already have sufficient ownership
>> needed to protect themselves from workers who try to stop other peers
>> from doing that work by blocking access to the Sources of Production.
>>
>> Workers cannot protect wages through ownership if other consumers
>> already have sufficient ownership because propping wages requires
>> the worker be able to STOP other potential workers from accessing
>> the Sources of Production, and why would a group stop a peer from
>> bidding to do a job - in some cases even for free (gratis).
>>
>> Like I said, I don't care if Workers invest and co-own more of the Apple
>> orchard than they are able to consume, but how will that help them
>> prop up wages when the other co-owners will always have the option
>> to do the work for themselves or to hire the lowest bidder?
>>
>> When the consumers around those workers have sufficient ownership,
>> they will not be buying the product from anyone, but will own it already
>> as a side-effect of their owning the Sources of those Objectives.
>>
>>
>>
>> > if this type of consumer coop
>>
>> This is absolutely NOT a Consumer Cooperative.
>>
>> 1,) Consumer Cooperatives *sell* the product back to the co-owners and
>> collect a profit during that transaction that a committee then doles
>> out in a Tyranny of the Majority fashion.
>>
>> 1a.) Imputed Production only sells product to non-owners, and only
>> when there is surplus, and treats that profit as an investment from
>> that payer - causing ownership and control to be automatically
>> distributed at the point of sale back to the actor who was willing to
>> pay for it.  This system minimizes and nearly eliminates the trading
>> of goods since the owner of Sources does not buy the Objective, but
>> owns it already as a result of his owning the Sources.  The trading of
>> goods will tend toward zero but does not reach stasis because of
>> newcomers into the system (even just babies being born), and because
>> people's interests change across time.
>>
>> 2.) Consumer Cooperatives are "Democratically Controlled" with
>> one-member/one-vote.
>>
>> 2a.) Imputed Production is far more autarchic- where any member can
>> 'fork' his portion of the Sources and secede from the union or sell
>> those shares if a split is attempted that is finer than reasonable
>> divisibility (you can't both feed a single milk-cow grain and NOT feed
>> that cow grain, but can divide a herd).
>>
>> 2b.) Each member has exactly as much vote power as he has ownership.
>> If you own 11% of a roto-tiller and your neighbor owns 22%, then you
>> have only half as much vote power in decisions such as "how often
>> should we change the oil".
>>
>> 3.) Every Consumer Cooperative I know of is only concerned with buying
>> products that were made by Capitalists.
>>
>> 3a.) Imputed Production is primarily about ownership and control of
>> the entire tree of production - recursively, and works toward a
>> Vertically Integrated Commons where we, the people, own the farms and
>> factories and land and water rights and all the other Sources and
>> supporting Sources required to reproduce those things.
>>
>> There are other differences I don't remember right now, but please do
>> not call my proposal a Consumer Cooperative, because the
>> organizational forms are vastly different both in structure and in
>> results.
>>
>>
>> > turns out to be successfull, more people would
>> > choose it (of course, this can only happen in a truly free society, so
>> this
>> > is quite hypothetical, and political transformations will be needed
>> before
>> > such type of free experimentation can occur)
>>
>> We don't need to transform politicians, and do not have enough money
>> to buy such changes anyway.
>>
>> All we need to do is start businesses that are funded and owned by
>> Consumers and that treat Profit as payer investment.
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110311/77adc3d7/attachment.html>

From michelsub2004 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 07:41:57 2011
From: michelsub2004 at gmail.com (Michel Bauwens)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:41:57 +0700
Subject: [VBbuilders] Google Voice discovered allowing pure VoIP calls???
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinahv2FEzLPVeakTUU7VKhGQQ2Ry2aW28yEa+gH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikeTi7+fDJMn=RQft3VOJSDvhtTPnPtFnmjBXix@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=j0JqW1EANi3QZpsXEScs9uEXR1S17VUK2hdN8@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinHzSQu_U4z1GSfAKzXF1x21LTNPD_ny-D68DWj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikWsehZtwyuL60iDS=K6RCAfJxhoz99TNPOzwfu@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=K0yKKfmsOWmdDJ+kj0Q0ckOY-OOCP07_fK1Z_@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinidHC6F9bKiP+s=gku3fQcA-dedNAKgf6JjOvY@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinwJOgi4spmFKcCLq002EsdV8MNaWu29YuKZGjh@mail.gmail.com>
	<731520214-1299809220-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1711589311-@bda2244.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTi=X=Tu6hMsUK5Yqar71e5BZaUxHoTVJPtHVJbfF@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinQ-TcjH4jc2bP10MFQJrU-CGtuzw3D9g7gG_co@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimXhjgHSVzMB-rOpUduEe7EuHEGFg5Sd333eOjV@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinahv2FEzLPVeakTUU7VKhGQQ2Ry2aW28yEa+gH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikTaq68KS+bvui_xXpwDXBdYKM12q_1Uw4EJcRO@mail.gmail.com>

hi patrick,

could you publish your section, 'these are not consumer coops' to one of
your pages on the p2p-f wiki, as this is an important aspect that you
explain well here

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Patrick Anderson <agnucius at gmail.com>wrote:

> Michel Bauwens wrote:
> > I remain unconvinced of a consumers-only ownership modality, again, all
> > stakeholders should have a stake, all peers, not just consuming peers
>
> Workers can invest more than they are able to consume, but it won't do
> them any good when the consumers already have sufficient ownership
> needed to protect themselves from workers who try to stop other peers
> from doing that work by blocking access to the Sources of Production.
>
> Workers cannot protect wages through ownership if other consumers
> already have sufficient ownership because propping wages requires
> the worker be able to STOP other potential workers from accessing
> the Sources of Production, and why would a group stop a peer from
> bidding to do a job - in some cases even for free (gratis).
>
> Like I said, I don't care if Workers invest and co-own more of the Apple
> orchard than they are able to consume, but how will that help them
> prop up wages when the other co-owners will always have the option
> to do the work for themselves or to hire the lowest bidder?
>
> When the consumers around those workers have sufficient ownership,
> they will not be buying the product from anyone, but will own it already
> as a side-effect of their owning the Sources of those Objectives.
>
>
>
> > if this type of consumer coop
>
> This is absolutely NOT a Consumer Cooperative.
>
> 1,) Consumer Cooperatives *sell* the product back to the co-owners and
> collect a profit during that transaction that a committee then doles
> out in a Tyranny of the Majority fashion.
>
> 1a.) Imputed Production only sells product to non-owners, and only
> when there is surplus, and treats that profit as an investment from
> that payer - causing ownership and control to be automatically
> distributed at the point of sale back to the actor who was willing to
> pay for it.  This system minimizes and nearly eliminates the trading
> of goods since the owner of Sources does not buy the Objective, but
> owns it already as a result of his owning the Sources.  The trading of
> goods will tend toward zero but does not reach stasis because of
> newcomers into the system (even just babies being born), and because
> people's interests change across time.
>
> 2.) Consumer Cooperatives are "Democratically Controlled" with
> one-member/one-vote.
>
> 2a.) Imputed Production is far more autarchic- where any member can
> 'fork' his portion of the Sources and secede from the union or sell
> those shares if a split is attempted that is finer than reasonable
> divisibility (you can't both feed a single milk-cow grain and NOT feed
> that cow grain, but can divide a herd).
>
> 2b.) Each member has exactly as much vote power as he has ownership.
> If you own 11% of a roto-tiller and your neighbor owns 22%, then you
> have only half as much vote power in decisions such as "how often
> should we change the oil".
>
> 3.) Every Consumer Cooperative I know of is only concerned with buying
> products that were made by Capitalists.
>
> 3a.) Imputed Production is primarily about ownership and control of
> the entire tree of production - recursively, and works toward a
> Vertically Integrated Commons where we, the people, own the farms and
> factories and land and water rights and all the other Sources and
> supporting Sources required to reproduce those things.
>
> There are other differences I don't remember right now, but please do
> not call my proposal a Consumer Cooperative, because the
> organizational forms are vastly different both in structure and in
> results.
>
>
> > turns out to be successfull, more people would
> > choose it (of course, this can only happen in a truly free society, so
> this
> > is quite hypothetical, and political transformations will be needed
> before
> > such type of free experimentation can occur)
>
> We don't need to transform politicians, and do not have enough money
> to buy such changes anyway.
>
> All we need to do is start businesses that are funded and owned by
> Consumers and that treat Profit as payer investment.
>



-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110312/4ec0f78b/attachment.html>

From michelsub2004 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 15 08:58:49 2011
From: michelsub2004 at gmail.com (Michel Bauwens)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:58:49 +0700
Subject: [VBbuilders] Co-Owning the Physical Layer
In-Reply-To: <ACBAF17C-1757-4CE4-B560-517E759A774D@lastrega.com>
References: <AANLkTinRrMQY5XSa7NJQRpKQe8qOi3k0seVjMeMcm3--@mail.gmail.com>
	<904FDAE1-A5A1-4117-BF7D-891AC3D0C6B4@lastrega.com>
	<AANLkTinLa7VWVHkGmnfe3Bzoq+7Jn7yS-3Y=-S=_DKNG@mail.gmail.com>
	<ACBAF17C-1757-4CE4-B560-517E759A774D@lastrega.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=MiK1b+X89DTbYxFY5cziEa2C3LYtCe2EPmmTJ@mail.gmail.com>

I've been asked privately if I could not clarify my own position regarding
owners vs. users/consumers forms of ownership,

so here is attempt,

as I tried to indicate, the issue is primarily ethical and concerns the
sovereignity of the producers of value,

so without even necessarily having to be a believer in the labour theory of
value, I think it is pretty clear that humans are the primary creators of
value when they 'rework' what is given to us by nature,

if this is true, then it follows that the producers of value, the workers,
should be the primary 'owners', 'possesors' or beneficiaries of that value,

now, does this necessarily mean that they should be the 'sole' owners?

not at all, first of all, because it may be difficult to identify 'single'
value creators, as we inherit so much from nature, from previous
generations, and form the complex present society that we belong to, i.e.
value creation is increasingly socialized

this means that a wider variety of forms that marry individual and
collective ownership must be possible,

my second belief in in pluralism, freedom of choice, experimental freedom
and the like, which is a strong argument for plural forms of property, but
within limits, i.e. no property forms that destroy the environment,
create/increate injustices to intolerable levels etc .. so I'm strongly
opposed to leaving the current form of profit maximising forms of property
'as is'; if it is to survive, it has to be strongly reformed to recognize
positive and negative social and environmental externalities, stripped of
its personhood, etc ...

Finally, there is the important issue of stakeholders and people afffected
by any activity, this is an argument for extend ownership and at least
stakeholder ship to user communities and all others that are affected,
including eventually the wider citizen community ...

sepp poses the important issue of governance vs. ownership, there it seems
to me, and this is the great weakness of peer production until now, is that
governance without ownership is weak, and therefore it is worth posing the
issue of ownership, and not leaving it on the side

this is by the way also a strong argument to keep forms of individual
ownership along with collective forms, as an ultimate guarantee of personal
sovereignty in a socialized world

distribituted, plural forms of ownership and governance, with freedom of
choice, is the key; the producers should not be separated from the means of
production, so that the wage relationship does not become another name for
slavery

Michel

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:32 AM, Sepp Hasslberger <sepp at lastrega.com> wrote:

>
> Patrick Anderson wrote:
>
> > Are you saying the only agents allowed to
> > work on a network must be within that
> > specific subnet?
> >
> > If not, and if groups are allowed to hire
> > anyone to work on the equipment, then should
> > we require those workers buy ownership in
> > that subnet before beginning work to protect
> > them from exploitation?
>
> No, nothing of the sort. All I was saying is that the network is owned by
> the users and it is maintained by them, in the sense that the users are
> responsible for its maintenance. Of course they could hire anyone to do that
> work, or one of the users could be compensated by other users to take care
> of maintenance of a larger part of the network.
>
> I do not think that outsiders (like a technician who is not a user of the
> particular network he maintains) should be required to be owners. A clean
> professional relationship would be just fine. That is not to say that the
> technician could not also become a user and part owner of the network, if he
> so desired.
>
> Sepp




-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110315/a385817c/attachment.html>

From ravenwyn at gmail.com  Tue Mar 15 09:45:15 2011
From: ravenwyn at gmail.com (Mark Petz)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:45:15 +0200
Subject: [VBbuilders] Co-Owning the Physical Layer
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=MiK1b+X89DTbYxFY5cziEa2C3LYtCe2EPmmTJ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinRrMQY5XSa7NJQRpKQe8qOi3k0seVjMeMcm3--@mail.gmail.com>
	<904FDAE1-A5A1-4117-BF7D-891AC3D0C6B4@lastrega.com>
	<AANLkTinLa7VWVHkGmnfe3Bzoq+7Jn7yS-3Y=-S=_DKNG@mail.gmail.com>
	<ACBAF17C-1757-4CE4-B560-517E759A774D@lastrega.com>
	<AANLkTi=MiK1b+X89DTbYxFY5cziEa2C3LYtCe2EPmmTJ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinZ=VP75vjThNOrsgbpkh29YohxBHyTBXf8HYgQ@mail.gmail.com>

So does a tree own its own fruit or branches?

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:

> I've been asked privately if I could not clarify my own position regarding
> owners vs. users/consumers forms of ownership,
>
> so here is attempt,
>
> as I tried to indicate, the issue is primarily ethical and concerns the
> sovereignity of the producers of value,
>
> so without even necessarily having to be a believer in the labour theory of
> value, I think it is pretty clear that humans are the primary creators of
> value when they 'rework' what is given to us by nature,
>
> if this is true, then it follows that the producers of value, the workers,
> should be the primary 'owners', 'possesors' or beneficiaries of that value,
>
> now, does this necessarily mean that they should be the 'sole' owners?
>
> not at all, first of all, because it may be difficult to identify 'single'
> value creators, as we inherit so much from nature, from previous
> generations, and form the complex present society that we belong to, i.e.
> value creation is increasingly socialized
>
> this means that a wider variety of forms that marry individual and
> collective ownership must be possible,
>
> my second belief in in pluralism, freedom of choice, experimental freedom
> and the like, which is a strong argument for plural forms of property, but
> within limits, i.e. no property forms that destroy the environment,
> create/increate injustices to intolerable levels etc .. so I'm strongly
> opposed to leaving the current form of profit maximising forms of property
> 'as is'; if it is to survive, it has to be strongly reformed to recognize
> positive and negative social and environmental externalities, stripped of
> its personhood, etc ...
>
> Finally, there is the important issue of stakeholders and people afffected
> by any activity, this is an argument for extend ownership and at least
> stakeholder ship to user communities and all others that are affected,
> including eventually the wider citizen community ...
>
> sepp poses the important issue of governance vs. ownership, there it seems
> to me, and this is the great weakness of peer production until now, is that
> governance without ownership is weak, and therefore it is worth posing the
> issue of ownership, and not leaving it on the side
>
> this is by the way also a strong argument to keep forms of individual
> ownership along with collective forms, as an ultimate guarantee of personal
> sovereignty in a socialized world
>
> distribituted, plural forms of ownership and governance, with freedom of
> choice, is the key; the producers should not be separated from the means of
> production, so that the wage relationship does not become another name for
> slavery
>
> Michel
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:32 AM, Sepp Hasslberger <sepp at lastrega.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> Patrick Anderson wrote:
>>
>> > Are you saying the only agents allowed to
>> > work on a network must be within that
>> > specific subnet?
>> >
>> > If not, and if groups are allowed to hire
>> > anyone to work on the equipment, then should
>> > we require those workers buy ownership in
>> > that subnet before beginning work to protect
>> > them from exploitation?
>>
>> No, nothing of the sort. All I was saying is that the network is owned by
>> the users and it is maintained by them, in the sense that the users are
>> responsible for its maintenance. Of course they could hire anyone to do that
>> work, or one of the users could be compensated by other users to take care
>> of maintenance of a larger part of the network.
>>
>> I do not think that outsiders (like a technician who is not a user of the
>> particular network he maintains) should be required to be owners. A clean
>> professional relationship would be just fine. That is not to say that the
>> technician could not also become a user and part owner of the network, if he
>> so desired.
>>
>> Sepp
>
>
>
>
> --
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>
> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110315/fdbf3574/attachment.html>

From ravenwyn at gmail.com  Thu Mar 17 00:49:57 2011
From: ravenwyn at gmail.com (Mark Petz)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 01:49:57 +0200
Subject: [VBbuilders] Clip Kino and more!
Message-ID: <AANLkTinysDJ3dpgb=3-zsChiyXJnmexp=g3k6+_2D1fD@mail.gmail.com>

I send link to an essay written recently about Clip Kino development in
Finland,
recently published in Video Vortex Reader II (p.81-94):

http://networkcultures.org/wpmu/videovortex/vv-reader

There are many good articles in this reader that may be of relevance to
different Video Usage in Community settings.

and as I am mentioned by name in the Clip Kino article I have to promote the
journal :)

I wonder if Video Bridging would be a suitable article for a future edition?
Or any other community film / video related projects you might be connected
with??

markus
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110317/a6090dc3/attachment.html>

From f.nahrada at reflex.at  Thu Mar 17 08:16:31 2011
From: f.nahrada at reflex.at (Franz Nahrada)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 08:16:31 +0100
Subject: [VBbuilders] Clip Kino and more!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinysDJ3dpgb=3-zsChiyXJnmexp=g3k6+_2D1fD@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinysDJ3dpgb=3-zsChiyXJnmexp=g3k6+_2D1fD@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fc.009725010bf56a803b9aca0003b7eaa9.bf576de@reflex.at>

Thank you Markus for this information, its great that you can download the
Video Vortex book.
[ http://networkcultures.org/wpmu/videovortex/vv-reader
]http://networkcultures.org/wpmu/videovortex/vv-reader

In my opinion it is critical that we experiment with practises of
VideoBridging,
but on the other hand we have enough material to report and spark peoples 
imagination.

I would love if we team up, especially with Marina, who tries so hard in
Greece.

The enormous change that has been going on in the online environment
has not seen enough opportunities realized in the corresponding 
physical world.

It is essential that artists and practicioners of local development like
transition people and sustainability people join forces.

Franz

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110317/bb1d3adb/attachment.html>

From f.nahrada at reflex.at  Thu Mar 17 13:04:04 2011
From: f.nahrada at reflex.at (Franz Nahrada)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:04:04 +0100
Subject: [VBbuilders] dialoguecafe.org.....
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim8vGEV1h2SFj7NkZ+zYPy+Yaksh+u+PJMY8ZMk@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim8vGEV1h2SFj7NkZ+zYPy+Yaksh+u+PJMY8ZMk@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fc.009725010bf5cf613b9aca006c6a817b.bf5d138@reflex.at>

Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote on Dantes link:

[ http://dialoguecafe.org/ ]http://dialoguecafe.org/"Dialogue Cafe enables
face to face conversations between diverse groups of people from around
the world so that they can share experiences, learn from each other and
work together to make the world a better place. Dialogue Cafes are now
open in Rio de Janeiro, Lisbon and Amsterdam."


....
>indeed seems similar to video-bridging,

I was in touch with them. very exciting idea, although they implement in
heavy business areas..

seems the same digital divide and bias is happining anywhere unless a
community is crazy enough to go the global villages way.

AND it seems I have to be after that myself (sadly) - We are still trying
in iuzr fiberopitic villages to get things going.

all I know is that I want to bridge with Chiang Mai and have us start
regular P2P lectures soon.

I think if Michel simply would comprehensively do a biweekly lecture
giving hints on what he did in his research that would be great....

Franz


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110317/89969f4a/attachment.html>

From michelsub2004 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 17 13:11:39 2011
From: michelsub2004 at gmail.com (Michel Bauwens)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 19:11:39 +0700
Subject: [VBbuilders] dialoguecafe.org.....
In-Reply-To: <fc.009725010bf5cf613b9aca006c6a817b.bf5d138@reflex.at>
References: <AANLkTim8vGEV1h2SFj7NkZ+zYPy+Yaksh+u+PJMY8ZMk@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc.009725010bf5cf613b9aca006c6a817b.bf5d138@reflex.at>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikaR7izrG7N0mgRT5g1xHSy-cfZGaowOcDq3C+r@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Franz,

I have substantially downgraded my plans for the Chiang Mai Commons,

in fact, numerous talks with thai people did not yield any committments for
cooperation, and even amongst the more activite local digital expats, it
seems location was an issue,

so, I decided to continue the kind of work that yields  more effect,
responses and results, i.e. the global online work I'm undertaking,

this does not mean of course, I cannot cooperate with local initiatives (I
now joined the bi-weekly barcamp meetings here), nor participate, through
webcam, in any global initiatives,

the building is now for rent, and the aim is to provide a basic income to
continue my research and engagement,

I will literally have almost zero income for the first half of this year, as
a lot of cultural institutions seem now to have serious budget and
austeritiy issues, so the need to focus on this material aspect becomes
quite serious,

Michel

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Franz Nahrada <f.nahrada at reflex.at> wrote:

>  *Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> *wrote on Dantes link*:*
>
> *http://dialoguecafe.org/* <http://dialoguecafe.org/>*"Dialogue Cafe
> enables face to face conversations between diverse groups of people from
> around the world so that they can share experiences, learn from each other
> and work together to make the world a better place. Dialogue Cafes are now
> open in Rio de Janeiro, Lisbon and Amsterdam."*
>
>
> ....indeed seems similar to video-bridging,
>
> I was in touch with them. very exciting idea, although they implement in
> heavy business areas..
>
> seems the same digital divide and bias is happining anywhere unless a
> community is crazy enough to go the global villages way.
>
> AND it seems I have to be after that myself (sadly) - We are still trying
> in iuzr fiberopitic villages to get things going.
>
> all I know is that I want to bridge with Chiang Mai and have us start
> regular P2P lectures soon.
>
> I think if Michel simply would comprehensively do a biweekly lecture giving
> hints on what he did in his research that would be great....
>
> Franz
>
>
>


-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110317/32c3d8d7/attachment.html>

From dante.monson at gmail.com  Thu Mar 17 14:07:16 2011
From: dante.monson at gmail.com (Dante-Gabryell Monson)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:07:16 +0100
Subject: [VBbuilders] dialoguecafe.org.....
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikaR7izrG7N0mgRT5g1xHSy-cfZGaowOcDq3C+r@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim8vGEV1h2SFj7NkZ+zYPy+Yaksh+u+PJMY8ZMk@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc.009725010bf5cf613b9aca006c6a817b.bf5d138@reflex.at>
	<AANLkTikaR7izrG7N0mgRT5g1xHSy-cfZGaowOcDq3C+r@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTingM3UGhhpvVVqXTf1o5mGtVDXKfhV1_G_E5fYT@mail.gmail.com>

although what I propose in the next lines is not a short term solution,
on the medium term,
an additional source of financial support may
possibly come from the creation of ( official ) partnerships ( again )
within this EU co-sponsored framework ?

http://www.socialinnovationexchange.org/

<http://www.socialinnovationexchange.org/>I went to the opening ceremony
here in Brussels.

That's where I heard of "dialoguecafe".

Some of the people present seemed to be well aware of the difficulty for
smaller projects to access funds and the heavy bureaucratic burden ( not
sure if they ll do anything to it ) ,...

One of the buzz words seemed to be "scalability"...

Several high placed technocrats from various "Directorate
General's", including one commissioner, expressed their interest in
supporting the platform within the limits of their respective missions and
budgets. This morning, the President of the Commission, Miguel Barosso,
officially opened the platform.

( one of the biggest budgets probably being the regional structural
development funds - 350 Billion euros over a time laps of 7 years - note :
the current 7 year program "only" spent 10 percent of its budget by mid-term
- ref : http://thebureauinvestigates.com/2010/11/29/top-story-3/  )


I would recommend getting in touch / talking directly, on the phone, if you
can, with

"Diogo Vasconcelos"
http://www.socialinnovationexchange.org/node/4618


more about "SIX"

http://www.socialinnovationexchange.org/aboutsix

SIX is a global community of over 1000 individuals and organisations ?
including small NGOs and global firms, public agencies and academics -
committed to promoting social innovation and growing the capacity of the
field.   Our aim is to improve the methods with which our societies find
better solutions to challenges such as ageing, climate change, inequality
and healthcare.

SIX was designed to fill a gap. There are some existing networks of social
innovators ? both groups and individuals ? in particular sectors (e.g.
health, environment, cities), particular fields (e.g. social
entrepreneurship, policy, design), and particular countries and regions. SIX
does not aim to compete with, or supplant, any of these initiatives, but
rather intends to link them together to promote learning and collaboration
across sectors, fields and countries.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Franz,
>
> I have substantially downgraded my plans for the Chiang Mai Commons,
>
> in fact, numerous talks with thai people did not yield any committments for
> cooperation, and even amongst the more activite local digital expats, it
> seems location was an issue,
>
> so, I decided to continue the kind of work that yields  more effect,
> responses and results, i.e. the global online work I'm undertaking,
>
> this does not mean of course, I cannot cooperate with local initiatives (I
> now joined the bi-weekly barcamp meetings here), nor participate, through
> webcam, in any global initiatives,
>
> the building is now for rent, and the aim is to provide a basic income to
> continue my research and engagement,
>
> I will literally have almost zero income for the first half of this year,
> as a lot of cultural institutions seem now to have serious budget and
> austeritiy issues, so the need to focus on this material aspect becomes
> quite serious,
>
> Michel
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Franz Nahrada <f.nahrada at reflex.at>wrote:
>
>>  *Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> *wrote on Dantes link*:*
>>
>> *http://dialoguecafe.org/* <http://dialoguecafe.org/>*"Dialogue Cafe
>> enables face to face conversations between diverse groups of people from
>> around the world so that they can share experiences, learn from each other
>> and work together to make the world a better place. Dialogue Cafes are now
>> open in Rio de Janeiro, Lisbon and Amsterdam."*
>>
>>
>> ....indeed seems similar to video-bridging,
>>
>> I was in touch with them. very exciting idea, although they implement in
>> heavy business areas..
>>
>> seems the same digital divide and bias is happining anywhere unless a
>> community is crazy enough to go the global villages way.
>>
>> AND it seems I have to be after that myself (sadly) - We are still trying
>> in iuzr fiberopitic villages to get things going.
>>
>> all I know is that I want to bridge with Chiang Mai and have us start
>> regular P2P lectures soon.
>>
>> I think if Michel simply would comprehensively do a biweekly lecture
>> giving hints on what he did in his research that would be great....
>>
>> Franz
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>
> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://globalvillages.org/pipermail/videobridgebuilders/attachments/20110317/a75ef4d3/attachment.html>