From f.nahrada at reflex.at Tue May 11 22:39:21 2010 From: f.nahrada at reflex.at (Franz Nahrada) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 22:39:21 +0200 Subject: [VBbuilders] Was the Workshop useful? reply to Markus - part 1 Message-ID: Dear all! in the last days I had several conversations especially with Markus and Marina about the overall evaluation of our January workshop that we can do much easier now after we all went back to normal and we have some distance to events. It is good we draw a clear balance at this time and yes- it is also very good that we are frank and open, especially because there is still the feeling that we had discovered some real ground to build on together. It also will very much influence the fate of our proposed second coming together. So thank you ,Markus, for writing me several mails and allowing me to share my answer in public. --- The reason this conversation started is because I began to poke some people, especially Markus, and ask them about filling in the country pages on Dorfwiki. http://www.dorfwiki.org/wiki.cgi?VideoBridge/CountryPages It is there where I wanted to collect the justifications that we can come together again; giving an overview of VideoBridge related activities that we can use as the bottomline to propose a Grundtvig Network. We agreed in Vienna that the foremost condition to do that would be the start of national or bilateral activities that prove that videobridge is a reality, that we are working on questions that are raised simultaneously throughout Europe. So filling those pages is essential and crucial. > On 09.05.10 at 09:22, Mark Petz wrote: > > >[ http://www.dorfwiki.org/wiki.cgi?VideoBridge/Finland >]http://www.dorfwiki.org/wiki.cgi?VideoBridge/Finland > >has no content from me. I know... I put in some content to get it started. I considered it a good encouragement when Annette showed up in Finland. > >Also several other pages from other people, because of several reasons > >1. Busy people - my case you can be very brief. I am also very busy and just put in some notes here http://www.dorfwiki.org/wiki.cgi?VideoBridge/CountryPages/Austria The idea is that you either state your intentions or the state of achievements in regard to videobridging between learning communities. Or it could be related ideas that you want to bring into a network. > >2. I don't recall my pass word - and now cannot find a request new one, >nor where to create a new account. you dont need a password to edit a page in Dorfwiki. Just write in your name without a space in the middle, for example MarkusPetz. > >3. Ning or facebook use instead The wiki is meant to be central permanent repository for structured group information, the NING and facebook are more socialising places which make it easier to blog, to discuss, to know who is there. the mailing list should be for announcements and hints to interesting developments on one of the online venues. The mailing list is our lowest common denominator, the wiki in a certain way our highest. But social networking in between can generate a lot. ----- Regarding social networking, we are also faced with a grave decision to make because the time of free NINGs is suddenly over and in Summer everyone who is not paying will be forced to migrate. I put some thoughts on this online in the Wiki: http://www.dorfwiki.org/wiki.cgi?VideoBridge/GrundtvigWorkshop/Discussion_about_NING_migration We started to experiment with ELGG, an Open Source Social Networking Solution that looks very promising. We will have a few weeks to run tests. Another option would be joining with educational networks of similar directions and form a subgroup there to save costs. There is a vast choice of video-related educational networks to consider. I hope we will be very creative. All in all the NING move was a big wakeup call that shows more options than we thought of. > >4. no instructions in english you could look at other examples of country pages It says on top at http://www.dorfwiki.org/wiki.cgi?VideoBridge/CountryPages: "VideoBridge activities in various countries, especially after the GrundtvigWorkshop: " I could add: "Fill in your own, choose the form you like. Keep it updated." > >5. no switch (like a little flag link) to easily find the english page >from the deutsch you can find it from our workshop pages http://www.dorfwiki.org/wiki.cgi?VideoBridge/GrundtvigWorkshop I just did the flags now so its easier to find!!! > >6. lack of clarity what we are supposed to write here - Very simply: What you are doing in your national framework about Videobridging (= NOT about second life filming etc.) I agreed with Marina that the time currently is too short to justify the planned meeting in Greece in August sufficiently. We dont have critical mass yet. That is very sad, but not everything is lost. More on the issue in my reply to your other mail. Franz From f.nahrada at reflex.at Tue May 11 23:32:30 2010 From: f.nahrada at reflex.at (Franz Nahrada) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 23:32:30 +0200 Subject: [VBbuilders] Was the Workshop useful? reply to Markus - part 2 Message-ID: I continue my answer to Markus. In a mail to him I reminded us of our roadmap. *************************************************************** Franz: We can only do it step by step. IF we can create national projects, THEN we will go for a joint meeting and a GRUNTVIG network. IF we do a Gruntvig Network, we CAN create a) a technical handbook for Videobridging plus training activities b) pattern research c) shared content (one by one or one to many and all in-between) d) places of access and learning around Europe e) a fair use agreement and a generative structure for content (a clearing hopuse, an organisation) f) a content repository (a kind of video wikipedia) ****************************************************************** Markus wrote >ITS TRUE - STEP BY STEP, AND this is exactly what people want to see. We >had a big mix of these elements in the workshop and no roadmap (one >destination and next destination that leads to an end point). Franz: The workshop was there primarily to get aware of all the involved dimensions. it brought together people from different angles and we needed to understand the state of technology, the experiences in communities etc. The steps above were roughly what I had in mind. > >a. So there is no manual being developed on a wiki-book format. yet? Franz: No, we had to postpone that goal. In my idea this would have hapopened during the workshop, but there was so much eagerness to dive into particular questions, to experiment with particular tools, to digest the plethora of content that we did not really rech that point. The wiki profiency was much lower than expected, so we created the diary exersize which unfortunately did not really take up before the weekend. >b. Pattern languages are disconnected from anything useful in most >participants minds. And those that do understand the concept want to >apply it to everything, rather like teenagers seeing cool band names in >everything. Franz: Pattern Theory CAN be applied to everything and I consider it as a breakthrough method that will revolutionize our attitude towards knowledge, but of course I wanted to see it applied to our particular subject. I feel that pattern thinking is greatly helpul in writing manuals and curricula, because it gives more freedom to discover and recombine, to design and to integrate. Patterns are nothing but proven or likely solutions decribed in context, and we need to find solutions in many dimensions at once. Maybe the number of dimensions was confusing. >c. There is some shared content, but its more shared co-operations; lets >see which way thats going and what relevance it has to GIVE objectives. >apple looked promising, but the nokia apple war will shape how open that >is. Franz: Well I think content is not about apple or nokia, but about the things we want to learn in community learning networks by using the best available capturing and realisation technologies. One content idea that I thought would be compelling was the "Findhorn Lectures", a series in very practical approaces to improve local possibilitiues in producing energy, enhance material cycles, improve our perceptiveness for community life and so on. In our upcoming Waldviertel project we use the Mantra: "Content development is local development, local development is content development." I am in touch with John Rogers about the idea of doing a videobridge from a Findhorn Seminar on alternative currencies. It is this type of activities - looking for the things we really want to learn about - that make an essential condition for videobridging. > >d. places of access and learning - well dunno quite how that relates to a >devolved content of everyone with an android phone and a skype enabled >laptop believing they meet this objective. Nor how this relates to other >learning places such as the European Telecentres or various other >initiatives co-opted or shoe horned into Lisbon agenda things. Franz: In an older proposal Steve Thompson called these places "village hubs". I think that useful and interesting educational content evolves best in live conversations at real living places, -->> thats the core dogma of the videobridge idea if you like <<--. Videobridging is therefore the art of capturing LOCAL content in a way it can be immediately shared at other localities and produce added value. Local conversations can often be extended, and our whole work revolves around how to extend them best. Steve put it very nicely in his old proposal and I share again the basic idea with all of you: "?In anecdotal fashion this is what the project would propose to do: ?An event is taking place at location A. This could be a public meeting, an arts event, a training event, anything that draws in the community. Locations B, C and D wish to participate but the distances and rurality preclude this. We therefore use technology to stream the event to B, C and D and build in a degree of interactivity. " The only thing that we added was the fact that this interactivity could include simultaneous conversations with remote people BEYOND text chats. We dont know how this inclusion of live bidirectional video will really play out - we will have to experiment. >e. fair use - would be nice, its a real mess now - but is being led by >the pirate party and usa legislation and business with various agendas - >none to me really about enabling fair use on a free basis, as say public >libraries were set up to do with books or Project Gutenberg does with >scanned books. But is this really what we should be working on - I think >not. Franz: Again I think we are talking about fair use of the content that we produce OURSELVES. So if location A produces an interesting lecture with a Novel Price Laureate or a weird but smart and successful local practitioner, it is expecting to get equally rewarded with three lectures or events from location B, C and D at other occasions. So if we have 365 places in the network, every day there is a hot event in the village learning center, although we would have to bother only once a year to produce our great thing! We ARE totally focused on our own content and ask for reciprocity to create a sustainable system of education and entertainmant in our villages.... >f. content repository? - well we have that through torrents and >individuals laptops, but again legislation is taking that away from us. >And commercializing it. Franz: Of course I am again talking about the content we produce OURSELVES, in a Peer2Peer fashion, between participating localities and regions. One major problem is to store this content and keep it available, because of high bandwidth issues. So one of the goals of capturing live conversations and lectures if of course to have an ever growing repository of really useful and instructional thoughts and ideas. ---------- Thats how I think possible elements of a roadmap could look like. We will focus in the coming months to realize this in a new Austrian case study, but if you all deal with at the same time these questions nationally and come up with creative answers and we can inspire each other, then I think our Workshop was useful. ? Giuseppe, Abdullah, Jakub, Julija, Laura, to name a few: I know that you have been working in these directions. Let us know on the country pages in the Wiki, so we all get encouraged! http://www.dorfwiki.org/wiki.cgi?VideoBridge/CountryPages all the best Franz